Continuing with Eric’s list…
Background:
A Christian man that I work with, Eric, knows that I blog here and wanted to share with you, as a married man, the 5 things he thinks a couple should talk about before they get married.
Some of these you might talk about in pre-marriage counseling. Some of these you might just naturally talk about (or experience) in your dating days as you get to know one another. There isn’t an option to not talk about or experience these things. You will have to eventually. The question is one of timing: do you want to deal with them before marriage or after marriage, where the risk of hurt and pain is much greater?
These aren’t theological issues – which are important, but these are the practical, day-in-day-out issues that really affect a marriage. Since his list is so great and each item is worthy of discussions, I’ve separated them into 5 different posts. For the most part, I’ve left them exactly as he wrote them.
Eric’s advice:
“How are we going to protect our marriage?” How do we shield, protect, and preserve our marriage from the offenses that *WE* bring to the table, not to mention the external ones? What’s our policy on secrets? (My wife and I have a no-secrets rule within our marriage, which means that anything shared with her is open for discussion with her husband – though things are still managed with discretion, of course.)
How do I let you know my temptation level and when I am on the edge ready to fall over? Should we have a code word or symbol for when it’s time to leave, when I’m uncomfortable, when I think you need to stop, to pause a conflict, etc.?
One thing you learn in marriage is that it’s not a magical formula that removes all sin and temptation, it’s still between 2 sinful people, and none of us are exempt from sin, temptation, and mistakes. But that doesn’t mean that you have to spend your marriage in reactionary mode, you can decide to be pro-active and put things in place to protect and advance your marriage (computer filters, finance committee meetings, white space on your [social] calendar, etc.)
Jayme’s Thoughts:
Jeff and I have set up some rules on this, but nothing too formal. Our rule of thumb is that we don’t spend time with non-family members of the opposite sex, as much as possible and really only when you’ve informed the other person. Meaning, I can go to lunch with a group of 5 co-workers, but I won’t go to lunch alone with Co-worker Carl. And we never discuss our marriage with others – family or not. Some situations might be unavoidable – if I had a male boss or if he had a female boss, but we aren’t in that scenario. There was one time that I wanted to meet with a man as he wanted career advice from me. I let Jeff know what was being asked, told him the situation and we didn’t have any issues. This other man and I drove separately to and from the lunch and it hasn’t happened since.
I, too, believe that anyone is capable of anything. Now, there are things that I’m more likely to do (aka: overeat) than some other things (aka: have an affair). But I’ve heard too many marriages that have fallen apart because they didn’t think “it could happen to them”. But it can.
The good news is that you never have an affair accidentally. It starts with a conversation in a cube, then a lunch or twenty, then after work events. Was the first conversation in a cube wrong? Maybe or maybe not. But the series of lunches certainly wasn’t wise.
How will you protect your marriage?
“And we never discuss our marriage with others – family or not.”
Really? So are you your own wise counsel on your marriage?
We’re not against seeing a counselor or a pastor if we needed to – individually or together, but talking to Joe Jones or Sally Smith about how our marriage is struggling is not an option. Can we talk about vacations? Sure. Can we talk about our schedules? Yup. But we don’t use others to talk about the struggles. Particularly members of the opposite sex. And family is always a hard one — do you really want your wife to have to sit across the Thanksgiving dinner table from your mother, knowing that you’ve been complaining about her to your mom? Ouch!
I agree with you Jayme. My mom taught us growing up that when we were married, we should only discuss a few problems with her regarding our marriage, because many things will be worked through and forgotten by me, but my mom would likely still be mad someone hurt her baby!
We forgive those we love, easier than our families will forgive.
Well, let’s keep in mind that complaining != seeking counsel (wise or not!) If you are seeking wise counsel on something in your marriage, I would imagine that both of you are present at all times, not just you or him.
And I’ve come across this difference before, but I’m not writing off Joe Jones or Sally Smith as not having wisdom which could be helpful, nor that the Holy Spirit will not chose to use them. Now, this is not an excuse to lack prudence in who nor how many people you speak with. But to my understanding of Christian community, you will have other people besides counselors and pastors to talk to. Some people may be uncomfortable with that idea because of how community has treated them in the past, but to me that’s no different than submission and leadership–both have to do it ‘right’ in order to see the peace and order God’s design brings.
And, finally, I would propose that there are things other than marriage struggles that you could be looking for wise counsel on as husband and wife. Let’s say that neither husband nor wife ever put together budgets or dived deep into the doctrine of God-honoring finances(not the case either of our households.) Then the first time the couple would be doing this is as a couple–cause they certainly need to look at finances together!–but this topic doesn’t require counselor nor pastor. It seems to me your distinction above was either “struggle” or ‘casual topic’, but nothing inbetween.
This probably has a lot to do with what one believes the role of the Holy Spirit is.
There’s a difference in our mind between “Hey, how would you set up a budget for this?” or “What do you think of this mutual fund?” or “How would you go about re-plumbing a bathroom?” or “How do you guys handle Santa in your house?” or “How do you think we should treat the command to love the poor?” or “What do you think of the passage the pastor preached on Sunday?” and “Woah is me, my marriage isn’t really good right now and my wife doesn’t get me and she’s acting all crazy.” The first examples are totally okay. The last one is not. Believers are great to have around; we’re commanded to be in community with one another. The question on the table is: “How do you protect your marriage?”
When dating, there were things – topics really – that came up in our relationship that I didn’t know how to handle or react to or think biblically about. In those cases, Jeff did direct me to the women that he knew about that he felt confident would give me godly advice (even if their opinion was different than his) about how to approach topics. Mentors, if you will. None of them were full-time ministers. They were all women who were known for loving their husbands and their children, had been through dating recently or had children in that stage of life and loved Jesus. Totally okay with that type of situation – even in marriage. Because 1) I was a woman talking to other women, 2) I was talking to godly women not “Five times divorced Debbie who hates men”, and 3) it was with Jeff’s knowledge.
If he and were struggling through a marriage issue, I’d whole heartedly recommend that he seek GODLY counsel from other married MEN – official ministers or laypeople – that part doesn’t matter. And if we needed to see someone together, then that’s way okay too.
What’s not cool: Jeff complaining about his wife to other men and especially to other women. Me complaining about my husband to other women or especially to another man. Neither are acceptable. That’s just our rule.
Okay, I think we’re actually saying nearly the same things here. Your last paragraph isn’t about counsel, it’s about complaining. Which off the top of my head I think we’re commanded not to do in or out of marriage, and is certainly a good way to protect your marriage.